Over the next two weeks on the Nonprofit Build Up, we are making the case for general support funding. This two-part series was originally recorded as a webinar with Angelyn Frazer-Giles, Executive Director of the National Network for Justice. Angelyn was previously featured on the Nonprofit Build Up Episode 9- Increasing Access for Grassroots Organizations.
You will hear us talk a lot about general support funding or flexible funding on the Nonprofit Build Up podcast, including Episode 22 – General Support Funding with A. Nicole Campbell. Many leaders in the nonprofit sector are speaking out about how crucial general support funding is for creating sustainable and effective organizations. And we agree. This series goes a little deeper into discussing why the majority of funding is not general support and what the delays are that slow down general support grants from becoming the default grants of the sector.
Additionally, Nic gets technical and discusses how to request general support grants and how to structure these awards to nonprofits and social-impact entities. Angelyn and Nic also address how to build relationships and trust and redefine risk to effectively transition to general support.
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Listen to Part 1:
Listen to Part 2:
Resources:
- Fast Build Friday: Episode 1- General Support Funding
- Fast Build Friday Series
- Flexible Funding is the New Kid on the Block
- The Funding Infrastructure Trends to Watch in 2020
- Episode 9- Increasing Access for Grassroots Organizations with Angelyn Frazer-Giles
- National Network for Justice
- Governance Assessment
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Read the podcast transcription below:
Part One
-Upbeat Intro Music-
Nic Campbell: You’re listening to the Nonprofit Build Up podcast. And I’m your host, Nic Campbell. I want to support movements that can interrupt cycles of injustice and inequity and shift power towards vulnerable and marginalized communities. I’ve spent years working in and with nonprofits and philanthropies, and I know how important infrastructure is to outcomes. On this show, we’ll talk about how to build capacity to transform the way you and your organization work.
Katy Thompson: Hi, everyone. It’s Katy T., Build Up’s Program Coordinator. This week on the Nonprofit Build Up, we are making the case for general support funding. This episode was originally recorded as a webinar with Angelyn Frazer-Giles, Executive Director of the National Network for Justice.
Katy Thompson: Angelyn was previously featured on the Nonprofit Build Up on episode 9, Increasing Access for Grassroots Organizations. You will hear us talk a lot about general support funding or flexible funding on the Nonprofit Build Up podcast, including last week’s episode introducing the importance of general support grants.
Katy Thompson: Many leaders in the nonprofit sector are speaking out about how crucial general support funding is for creating sustainable and effective organizations. And we agree. This episode goes a little deeper into discussing why the majority of funding is not general support, and what the delays are that slow down general support grants from becoming the default grants of the sector.
Katy Thompson: And with that, here is Nic’s discussion about general support funding with Angelyn Frazer-Giles.
Nic Campbell: Thanks so much, Angelyn. It’s my pleasure to be here. And I really love the work that NNJ does. And so, I’m very happy to be having this conversation. When we started to talk about what this conversation would look like and what we would be able to cover, we started to talk about funding, right? And we started this conversation around why can’t we have more flexible funding throughout the sector? What is it that’s preventing funders from just making this a default position? And so, that’s always been my question about why can’t we make the default position within the sector to be general support funding?
Nic Campbell: And I’ve heard some arguments against doing that. And I think in some instances it just might not work if you’re working with a particular organization and you’re trying to – A university is a great example. If you’re trying to support a school, for example, within the university. Giving general support to the entire university is not what’s intended. But I do think what is intended is flexibility and how that school or the intended grantee uses the funding. And so, this idea around general support is really about flexibility in funding and giving the ability of how to use that funding over to the grantee, right? And what are our steps to get there?
Nic Campbell: And so, what I want to talk about today is what is general support? I think we use that term a lot. I want to explain what I mean by it. What do we mean when we say project support or project grants? Talk about two concepts; expenditure responsibility and equivalency determination. We’ll talk about when those things come into play. But I do think that we need to talk about them in order to have a real conversation around general support.
Nic Campbell: Again, I do believe that in the majority of cases, general support is the most effective form of support that funders can provide to nonprofits to support their projects, programs and overall sustainability. This is how we build organizational capacity. You do it with flexible funding, unrestricted funding, and the general support. Yes, of course, you can build an organization that is sustainable through project support funding or project grants. But you want to make sure that the funding you’re providing is as flexible and unrestricted as possible. And I’ll walk through why.
Nic Campbell: Why aren’t we there, right? This sounds really logical, right? Like, “Okay. Well, Nic, you’ve explained that you want to give flexibility to organizations. You want to get funding.” Why aren’t we there? And in my opinion, I think we’re not there because we have not built trusting relationships, right? And when I say we, I mean, funders and grantees. I think at the base of it, there is a lack of trust and there’s a lack of relationship that’s happening, which is influencing whether or not general support grants are then being made.
Nic Campbell: And I think that that’s a big statement. And I think people will say, “Well, of course, I trust this organization. Of course, we have a relationship.” But I would actually challenge that and say, “Is it the kind of relationship where you say here is a set of unrestricted funds. Use it as you would like.” And I assured, and I trust that you understand my goals and we understand your goals, and we’re working towards the same aims, right? I think having that conversation and clarifying that relationship is at the core of all of this. And so, we can talk about all these tools. We can talk about giving general support grants, and project support grants, and expenditure responsibility, and how to do that with equivalency determinations and things like that. But to me, those things are tools. And at the core of it, it’s do you have this trusting relationship that will be able to support the use of all of those tools? When we say general operating support, what are we actually talking about? We’re talking about supporting a nonprofit’s mission, right? As opposed to saying, “I’m going to support this line item of a specific project or a program.”
Nic Campbell: Again, we’ve talked about why funders, grantors should be providing general operating support. One, because it does build strong sustainable infrastructure. You’re not wedded to spending funds on a particular line item or a particular project. You can actually spend it to build capacity. You can help to build out the infrastructure of your organization, build out your governance, build out the way that you’re making grants if you are a grant-making nonprofit. It frees up the time that people are spending on fundraising, because now they don’t say, “Okay. Well, there’s 10 line items in our project. We’ve got two of them funded. Let’s go out and fundraise for the other eight.” Right?
Nic Campbell: You are now thinking holistically, and it changes the way you start to tell your organization’s story and how you’re trying to say, “Here’s how you can support us.” And the reporting changes as well. Because now you’re giving reports on programs and initiatives throughout the organization and not doing it piecemeal, right? Project by project. I think it does reduce that power imbalance between grant maker and grantee that might exist. Because, again, you’re basing it on a trusting relationship. And this is where it comes from, right? This is where the flexibility comes from. The ability to say you’re going to use the funds the way you determine that you should use them. I think it allows an organization to be innovative and to actually take risks, right?
Nic Campbell: Like, think of what you would do if you had a safety net, right? Think of what you would do if you had the ability to build your sustainability and your capacity. I think that’s a much different way of looking at things compared to, “Well, we’ve got a line item here. We still have to raise the other seven. How will we do that?” And you’re constantly worrying about how you’re raising funds against line items as opposed to how you’re building an organization. And at the core of all of this, it’s really about how are you giving your non-profit leaders space to lead? How are you giving them space to problem solve? And how are you giving them space to build an organization? I don’t think that once you give the funds, that’s it.
Nic Campbell: I also think that what a company’s general support should be technical assistance support. You know, a lot of questions have been raised, “Well, if I give a general support award, it’s like writing a blank check. Essentially, how will I be able to find out what’s happened? How will I you know be able to monitor?” And I think, again, once you have that underlying trusting relationship, you can continue to work alongside the organization because of that really strong relationship. And you’re helping to say, “I have networks that I can introduce you to. I have other tools that I can have you use.” Because you’re providing technical assistance along with the money.
Nic Campbell: I do not think that just providing general support funding is all it takes. I also think you need that additional capacity building support, the technical assistance that comes with it. And what do we mean when we say project or program support? We talk about supporting a specific project, or a specific program, or initiative of the organization. What can it help you do? You can actually respond directly to new and innovative projects. You could help to build out programs focus explicitly on that work that the project grant is funding. You have more control as a funder, right? You’re able to say, “Show me how this particular project has performed, a program has performed, a metric that you have articulated you would be following is doing. And you get into this idea of like not having this heavy reliance on one funding source.
Nic Campbell: If you’ve got 10-line items and a funder is funding each of those line items, now you’re diversifying funding as a default, as opposed to having one funder giving you general support funding that you’re using any way you’d like. What are some of the limitations? Why do I constantly push for for general support? I really do believe that grantee organizations are the ones doing the work and they’re the ones that actually know the community that they’re serving best. Why not give them the ability to determine how then they want to use those funds, again, along with that technical assistance that’s being provided?
Nic Campbell: I’ve also found this in my practice over seeing lots of different nonprofit organizations and leaders over the past 16 years, that what happens is you start to write to the grant, right? You start to write and create projects and programs to meet the funding ask, right? You might have an idea in your head where you’re like, “I think this is innovative. And I think this is the way to go.” But instead, what you do is, “Well, I know that there’s a pot of money that is living there for this particular kind of work. Now, let me write to that grant, right? Now, let me make this program fit that mold.” And so, I think that that does happen.
Nic Campbell: And I think if you’re given piecemeal, you have to think about this, right? You’re giving piecemeal kinds of support and saying, “Okay, well I’m supporting this project or that program.” When you stop supporting a line item or you stop supporting that project, how is it being sustained over time? Because all of the things that you’re putting limits on, like, “Oh, we’re only giving 20% of this. We’re only giving 30% for overhead,” let’s say. Well, people still need desks to do their work, right? You still need electricity to do your work. You need all of those things that constitute infrastructure that we put limits on and we say, “We’re not going to – Our grant is only going to support this percentage of it.” What’s going to happen to the other 70%, the other 80%, that no other funder wants the fund because everyone wants to fund the program, the project, the work so to speak?
Nic Campbell: What happens then is these projects may not be sustained over time. The project that you’re so interested in, that one might succeed. But what about the others that are not being supported or somebody drops out? Now you have projects being started not being sustained. And the overall effectiveness of the organization is decreasing, right? Just because one program is “succeeding”. If it’s succeeding in an environment that’s not sustainable, it is not succeeding, right? And so, those are some of the limitations that I’ve seen over the years and that I think that project support awards tend to facilitate.
Nic Campbell: I’m not saying that project support is bad and never ever receive it. I just think that the default, the place we start from should be how do we award unrestricted flexible funding to this organization in order for them to be sustainable and build their capacity while doing the work that we’re interested in supporting. Now, the reason I wanted to talk about expenditure responsibility is because now that we’ve talked through general support and project support, some people might say, “Well, that only works when you’re making a grant to a public charity. When you make a grant to an organization that’s not a public charity, you have to deal with expenditure responsibility.” And this is only if the grant maker is a private foundation. If you’re a public charity and you’re making grants, you don’t have to worry about expenditure responsibility. But private foundations do.
Nic Campbell: And private foundations then have to comply with all the ER requirements that say you have to do lots of different things. You have to have an agreement. You have to put certain language in the agreement. You have to conduct certain diligence. And you really can’t give a general support grant to an organization that’s not charitable, right? If you think about the example of giving a grant to a for-profit, and the for-profit would say has a really great charitable program, and you say, “Well, Nic said we should always give general support grants. I’m going to give it to this organization.” When you’re giving this general support grant to this for-profit that does for-profit things, you can’t do that as a private foundation because now you’re supporting things that are not charitable. You haven’t really supported that carve out project. That’s the concern when it gets to expenditure responsibility where people will say, “Well, we can’t obviously do general support in that context.” So, it has to be a project support grant, right?
Nic Campbell: And I agree that you can’t just give the sort of blanket type of support to organizations that are not charitable when you’re dealing with expenditure responsibility. But that doesn’t mean that you can’t build in flexibility, right? It doesn’t mean that when you make that project award, you can build in the maximum amount of flexibility that is allowed under the law. And I don’t see that push to get us to that maximum level of flexibility under the law as much as I would like.
Nic Campbell: I would love it if the place that we’re starting from is unrestricted flexible funding. And however it shows up, we meet those different situations. If we’re dealing with a for-profit with a charitable program that is carved out, then we give a project support grant that has the maximum amount of flexibility that is allowed in that instance. That’s what I’m saying when I talk about how we should approach funding. I’m not saying in every single instance, general support is appropriate or even legal. But I am saying that there are ways to have it happen.
Nic Campbell: And so, when someone brings up expenditure responsibility, the thinking here is there’s still ways to do it. And I just want to see us try to get there. Because there’s lots of grassroots organizations that they’re not public charities for whatever reason, right? When we think about innovation, when we think about ways to show up and have social impact, it’s not just the public charity that can have social impact, right? There’s lots of different organizations that are not forprofits, but there are other kinds of entities that would fall under expenditure responsibility. And I don’t think that it’s logical or reasonable to say, “Well, because you’re not a public charity, we can’t possibly give you additional flexibility in this award. And we have to change the way we work or operate.”
Nic Campbell: The other one I wanted to talk through is equivalency determination, because the question determination is essentially a process that you go through where you determine that a foreign grantee, a non-US entity, is the equivalent of a US public charity, right? You basically say, “Look, if you were formed in the United States, you would basically be a US public charity. But because you weren’t, we’re going to have to go through a process that makes sure that you’re the equivalent of a US public charity.” Once you go through that process, what it essentially does is it allows you to treat that organization as a US public charity. Otherwise, you’re in expenditure responsibility, right? Because you’re making a grant to an organization that is not a public charity. That’s when expenditure responsibility comes into play in the US and outside the US.
Nic Campbell: Equivalency determination only comes into play when you’re dealing with organizations that are outside of the US. And so, here, it’s another tool to say, “How do we make sure that we can get you flexible funding?” Right? How do we make sure that we can put you under the general support rubric and give you the amount of funding that you need and have you use it in the way that you see best, again, providing technical assistance along the way? And equivalency determination is a process. So, you want to make sure that you’re supporting the grantee through that, because you’re asking for operations information and finances to essentially get to that point where you’re making that determination about equivalency.
Nic Campbell: And so, that’s really what I wanted to talk through so that we could set ourselves up for our conversation. And again, like just to start us off or have us think about why is the majority of funding not general support, right? After everything that I’ve talked through, why do we think that we’re still in this space where the majority of the funding that’s awarded is actually not general support? And in fact, when COVID hit last year and started particularly within the United States, we had a lot of conversions, right? We had a lot of grants being converted from project support to general support. Why? Why did it take a pandemic for us to get to that point? And there’s some organizations, there’s some foundations, even after they’ve made that conversion, they’re still gone back to providing project support, right? It’s just like we think this is a crisis. And so, we think you need the flexibility. But in a non-crisis situation, you actually don’t need flexibility, and you’re fine with the project support grant.
Nic Campbell: I would push us and challenge us to ask ourselves why is that the case? And then what’s slowing us down? What’s making us say why can’t general support grants or that approach of unrestricted flexible funding be the default approach for the sector? Like, what’s slowing us down there?
Katy Thompson: We are going to pause the conversation here. There’s a lot we have to say about general support funding. Nic raised so many important points and questions to ponder that we wanted to space this discussion out over two episodes. Stay tuned for part two next week.
-Upbeat Outro Music-
Nic Campbell: Thank you for listening to this episode of Nonprofit Build Up. To access the show notes, additional resources and information on how you can work with us, please visit our website at buildupadvisory.com. We invite you to listen again next week as we share another episode about scaling impact by building infrastructure and capacity in the nonprofit sector. Keep building bravely.
Part Two
-Upbeat Intro Music-
Nic Campbell: You’re listening to the Nonprofit Build Up podcast. And I’m your host, Nic Campbell. I want to support movements that can interrupt cycles of injustice and inequity and shift power towards vulnerable and marginalized communities. I’ve spent years working in and with nonprofits and philanthropies, and I know how important infrastructure is to outcomes. On this show, we’ll talk about how to build capacity to transform the way you and your organization work.
Katy Thompson: Hi, everyone, its Katy T., Build Up’s Program Coordinator. This week on the Nonprofit Build Up, we’re continuing our conversation about general support funding. This episode was originally recorded as a webinar with Angelyn Frazer-Giles, Executive Director at the National Network for Justice.
Katy Thompson: In this episode, Nic gets technical, and discusses how to request general support grants and how to structure these awards to nonprofits and social impact entities. Angelyn and Nic also addressed how to build relationships, and trust and redefine risks to effectively transition to general support. At Build Up, we believe that in the majority of cases. General support is the most effective form of support that funders can provide to nonprofit organizations to support their programs, projects and overall sustainability, which is why we’re dedicating a significant amount of time on the podcast to discuss it. And with that, here is the second and final part of Nic discussion about general support funding with Angelyn Frazer-Giles.
Nic Campbell: And then I also want to turn it on to the nonprofits as well, who are requesting grants. Because, yes, it’s funders that are talking about awarding project support grants. But I also find that as grantees are just asking for project support grants, I think it’s just because this is what we’ve been conditioned to do. So, how do you actually request them? How do you put yourself in a position where you’ve been receiving project grants for years and now you want to say, “No, I actually want to receive general support grants. And I want that technical assistance support so that I can continue to build out the capacity of my organization and become more sustainable.” How do you structure these grants to these innovative entities, right? Entities that are not public charities. They’re just other nonprofits, or they just might be social impact entities? How do we structure those grants to do those things?
Nic Campbell: And I think most importantly, how do you build relationships and trust and redefine risk? How you’re thinking about risk to effectively transition to general support? Because I do think that without answering that final question, everything else is going to be sort of fits and starts, right? So, you’re going to see a wave of, “Hey, let’s all do general support.” And then you’re going to see it sort of stall. And you’re going to see it start up again. And we’ve seen that already, right? We’ve seen the largest foundation say, “We’re going to focus on general support and providing more flexible awards.” And then there’s kind of been a stop, right? Encouraging other foundations to do the same. But there’s going to stop.
Nic Campbell: COVID then surfaces. And it’s, “Okay, well, let’s convert to general support. This is great. Let’s give all this generous support so we can provide flexibility to these organizations.” And now there’s sort of a lull. So why do we keep having those lulls? I really think it’s because at the core of it, we need to build those relationships and trust and think about and talk about how we’re defining risk. But I’ve said a lot. And so, I will stop there, Angelyn, and turn it back over to you.
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: No. Great, great information. I’m going to ask, if anyone does have any questions, they could feel free to put it in the Q&A. But I have a couple of questions. And one of them has to do with the slide that talked about equivalency determination? And if you could just go over that a little bit, because I think I missed the first part of the concept in terms of foreign entities and how that relates to the nonprofit that is a US-based nonprofit. Could you just explain that one a little bit more?
Nic Campbell: So, when we talk about general support, and this idea that we’re giving flexible funding, unrestricted funding to organizations, some of the pushback or challenges might be, “Well, you can only do that with a US public charity.” You can only do that with an organization that is designated by the IRS as a public charity. And so, when you start to deal with organizations that are not US public charities, both within the United States and outside the United States, right, because it’s grassroots organizations around the world working within communities, you can’t then make those grants. So, they have to be project support grants. Let’s not even talk about flexibility when it comes to those organizations.
Nic Campbell: And so, equivalency determination comes in, because it’s a way of saying we find that this organization that is based outside the United States is the equivalent of a US public charity. Once you go through that process to make that determination, now, that organization essentially can be treated just like a US public charity. So, that means that this organization, that before this equivalency determination process was not eligible for this broad general support client where you could support all aspects of the organization’s work necessarily, now they can, because they have been seen and deemed to be the equivalent of a US public charity.
Nic Campbell: And so, as a result, you’re able to give broad support just like you would give to a US public charity. You can give them a lot of the flexibility and the options that you provide to US public charities. So, there’s another tool to do that. And sometimes it just requires that you’re going line by line through budgets when you’re in expenditure responsibility. So, now you’re making a grant to an organization that’s not a US public charity. It’s also based outside the US. And let’s say you don’t go through the clemency determination process, because for whatever reason, it just doesn’t qualify. And it doesn’t have to be for charitable reasons, but it just doesn’t qualify, you can still award funding in a flexible way to that organization, right? You literally just have to go through budget line by budget line to ensure that its charitable and what you’re supporting would be charitable. But you don’t have to designate it to a particular line item. I think there’s ways to do it. Equivalency determination is one. But also, being creative and how you’re thinking about supporting organizations that are not US public charities both within and outside the United States is another.
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that clarification. We have a question. And I’m going to allow this person to talk if they want to say the question. I’ll just open up your mic. And if you want to say your question, you’re more than welcome to do so. And if not, I can also just read it. So, whichever you prefer.
Nic Campbell: Cool. Thank you, Angelyn. Can you hear me okay?
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: Yes, we can hear you.
Nic Campbell: Thank you so much. This is really fantastic info. And really appreciate that this is a rare conversation in a lot of these spaces. Thank you, Nic, so much for presenting all of this. My question was around the challenge that I think a lot of smaller nonprofit organizations run into in general, which is, if you’re kind of a small fish, it’s hard to get the attention of foundations at all to fund your work. And so, then asking for general support seems like it’s just out of the question. So, I’m wondering if you find that there is a scale issue or a size issue that goes along with this? And if you have any suggestions for how to navigate that?
Nic Campbell: So, I appreciate the question. And I think what I’ve found – I’m not going to discount the fact that there is a size difference between a lot of the grassroots organizations that I work with and some of the largest funders, some of whom I work with as well. But I will say that scale, I think, is actually perception, right? Because if you were clear about your value add, if you were clear about this is what my organization does. This is our unique value proposition. This is what we’re adding to this ecosystem. This is the kind of impact that we’re having and the problem solving that we’re doing with the community. It doesn’t matter how “small” you are. It’s about your impact. And it’s about how you’re showing up.
Nic Campbell: And so, when you come to that conversation with a funder to say, Essentially, we’re having this conversation because you’re interested in supporting us. If you’re interested in supporting us, then you’re interested in supporting that impact.” And so, finding a way to, one, be clear about your impact and your unique value prop and what you’re adding. But also, being clear that general support, I don’t think it’s like, “Well, you should start with project and then you get general.” It’s that this is how you invest in this organization. This is how you invest in the people and the capacity in the building of this organization. And this is the way to do it, is through general support grants, is through capacity building grants. It’s not through line item grants.
Nic Campbell: And I think having that conversation. And again, if you have that relationship, that trusting relationship between whoever you’re talking to at the foundation or the funder, and they have whoever’s talking to them from your organization, that conversation goes a lot easier, right? I think it’s harder when people don’t have the relationship. They also don’t understand the risk. Because at the end of the day, the funder is just thinking in terms of risk, right? You’re thinking, “Is this risky? Will this actually pan out?” And no one really has a shared understanding of what risk means. Risk to them can mean you’re small, right? So, you’re risky. And if that’s the case, then we need to be clear about why that is a risk, as opposed to just being different. Why is it a risk as opposed to being an actual advantage? Because you can now engage with the community in a way that a large organization might not.
Nic Campbell: I think a lot of these points really just go around how can you establish your impact? How can you make that clear to the funder? You also need a trusting relationship. I know, that’s the hard thing to build. But I think you need a trusting relationship. Because to be honest, even if you get a project support grant and that trusting relationship is not there, you’re going to see it in the monitoring. You’re going to see it in the reporting. You’re going to see it in the way that you’re engaging with each other anyway. So, you need to build that trusting relationship in order for all of those things to come together and see general support as an investment in this organization and getting them closer to the impact that they’re saying that they want. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be having the conversation with you.
Nic Campbell: And so, that’s how I advise and counsel my clients to approach the conversation. We can talk about ways to be a little more creative. If for some reason the organization might not want to provide general support because sometimes that is the policy of the funder, and if that’s the case, then we think about how do we do this in a creative way as opposed to just saying, “Okay. Well, let’s just default to project support grants.”
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: Yeah, it really was. Thank you. In that same vein, I have a question regarding – You talked about when the pandemic hit last year, when everything shut down, and folks were trying to do some of that basic support to communities, right? And after George Floyd, it was the conversation about race. And there was this reckoning for people who, I guess, didn’t feel racism existed in this world. There were all of these shifts, right? Where we saw some of the organizations that we support, they then have to like shift their mission and focus because the funders were then shifting their focus and various guidelines on funding.
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: And you just talked about it slowing down. Like, it opened up. There was some general support. And then it’s starting to slow down a little bit more where they’re now fully re-evaluating, “Okay, where were we a year ago? And how do we continue down that path? Or do we need to structurally change things?” And I’m just curious as to how you’ve been able to talk to folks about not changing their mission to fit that mold that you discussed about the funding that exists and trying to find that one key word that’s in your mission that might be – The one key word that’s in the funding application and really get people to really step back and maybe say, “Well, maybe that’s not a good fit for me. Because if I have to change my mission and my goals, then I’m not being true to what my organization is about.”
Nic Campbell: It’s a really good question, right? Because I think what it puts into play for me is that a few things. The first is if you’re in an emergency situation as an organization and you have payroll or you have just needs that need to be met immediately, I think, yes, go – If you can pivot easily, pivot easily and get the funding. Because it’s about staying alive at this point.
I think if you’re in that kind of dire situation, I wouldn’t then say, “Well, no, I’m just going to hold off. And I’m not going to change because of all of these other things,” which are all valid if you’re in that emergency kind of situation. I would say pivot if you can and accept the funds, right? Because you want that lifeline.
Nic Campbell: If you’re not in that dire of a situation and you’re just saying, “Look, we do need the funds. We need the revenue. How will we do that? Do we need to pivot?” I think you are in a position that is saying a ton about your infrastructure, right? It’s telling me that you are not diversified. It’s telling me that something is missing in that compelling story that you’re telling in order to fundraise, right? It says to me that you might be telling a great story around impact, for example. How you’re working with communities? But you’re not necessarily telling a very good story about your infrastructure, and all of the infrastructure that it takes to get to that impact.
Nic Campbell: I think that once you get to the point where you’re thinking, “Should I pivot? I need this money. I need the revenue.” It’s actually a time to think about what in your infrastructure is not in place that have put you into this position? I think, one, very easily, could be diversification of revenue. Because there’s a series that I do on Fridays. It’s called fastball Fridays. Just like a few minutes of video, and we talk about infrastructure in each of those episodes. One of them that I put out is can you say no to a grant? Like, are you in the position to say no to a grant because it does not align with the way you want to problem solve alongside the community that you’re serving? And if your answer is, “No, Nic. Actually, I can’t say no to a grant at this point.” Then to me, it’s a signal that we need to work on governance. We need to work on your capacity. We need to work on how you’re doing your fundraising in terms of diversification of funding. Who you are actually reaching out to?
Nic Campbell: There’s a lot of infrastructure pieces that I think that we should delve into that will actually strengthen your organization and put you in a much better place than you having to think about should I have to take this money or not? I think if you are at that stage and you have some space to at least say, “Look, it’d be nice to have, of course. But we actually don’t need it right now.” I would spend some time thinking about my infrastructure. I’m thinking about your board’s engagement and involvement oversight and accountability within the organization. How your capacity looks within your team, within your systems, your processes? Because something has gotten you to the point where you are now thinking of pivoting, changing your mission. You’re not talking about kind of a tweak. We’re talking about you changing your mission the way you work. I would say that you are almost at that stage of being really in dire condition. It’s a signal to me to start to focus on the infrastructure a lot more.
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: Wow! Thank you. Thank you so much for. That’s really telling. Because I think we’re all in the position of having to look at our organizations and determine whether or not what we’re doing for the infrastructure is working. And is it sustainable over time? And asking yourself that question, can you turn down a grant? Because I think a lot of folks are also looking at situations where someone may be a great – Willing to offer you some money. But maybe it doesn’t fit in with your heart strength. So, it may be what their mission is, is really not necessarily what you want to align yourself with. Especially being able to step back and look at that situation and say, “Well, maybe that is what we shouldn’t do. Maybe we keep looking.” Do you have any advice for looking at foundational grants versus more uh corporate type grants? And that goes along with what I was just talking about. Making sure that whatever the mission is of that corporation fits in with your model or your vision. Do you have any suggestions or ideas on how to look at those?
Nic Campbell: Yeah, I think when it comes to fundraising and development, the work that I do around infrastructure necessarily touches on it, right? Because you want to make sure that you’re strong enough to actually take funds, to actually go out and ask for funds. And so, when I hear – When I ask organizations about donors. Who are they receiving money from? Who’s in their donor base? And when it comes to fundraising and development, the work that I do around infrastructure necessarily touches on it, right? Because you want to make sure that you’re strong enough to actually take funds. To actually go out and ask for funds.
Nic Campbell: And so, when I ask um organizations about donors. Who are they receiving money from? Who’s in their donor base? And when I hear it’s just all foundations. All private foundations. I like the fact that it’s diversified and it’s not like two foundations or one foundation. But I always want to ask about what about corporations? What about individuals? What about high-net-worth individuals? How about individuals that want to do sort of crowd sourcing, crowd funding types of contributions?
Nic Campbell: And if they have a strategic response to that to say, “Oh, actually, here’s why corporations are not necessarily interested. Or here’s why they’re making up 2% of our donor um base.” I think that’s fine. But I want to make sure that we’ve had the conversation and I’ve asked the question. Because you need to know who your ideal donor is. And you make sure you’re as diversified as possible. I also think that we need to consider and explore earned income options and models as well. And again, it’s not to say that it is for everyone. But again, I want to make sure that you ask the question and you have a conversation as to why it’s not.
Nic Campbell: And what I find a lot is that we start off from a place of we are just going after foundation grants. And I think that there’s a lot of other types of donors out there that might be interested in the work that you’re doing and the impact that you’re having that are not foundations. And so, it’s a matter of having that strategic conversation around does it make sense to have a campaign around corporations? Around individuals? Around different types of social impact entities that might be interested in the work that we’re doing? And again, you may not come out saying yes to all of those things. But at least you have the conversation and you’ve raised the question.
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much for that. I have one other – It’s really not a question. It’s just a statement for you to, first of all, say thank you so much for you being a partner with National Network for Justice. You have helped a couple of our members in their infrastructure and their strategic planning. And everybody loves you and thinks that you just are able to just put your thumb on the issue and really help aboard and help the staff work through whatever the issues are that they’re dealing with. So, I want to thank you for that. And please tell people how they can get in touch with you. Any type of service that you want to say that you are here for, that you are doing for folks. I know you are very, very busy. And so, you taking the time out to do this for us is really, really appreciated. And just want to give you the opportunity to talk about –
Nic Campbell: I really appreciate that, Angelyn. And as I mentioned at the the top of our conversation, I do enjoy the work that we’re doing together and all that NNJ is doing for its members and for the community generally. If people want to be in touch, I would love it if you would be. We have a podcast. It’s called the Nonprofit Build Up. And so, it’d be great if you could take a listen to our episodes and also subscribe, because we would love to have you share all of the new episodes that are coming out. We have conversations with leaders and problem solvers within the sector about how to build infrastructure, fundraising and development. The same kinds of questions that we’ve talked through around do we pivot if we need the money? What does that say about our message and about our organization and sustainability? That’s definitely one way.
Nic Campbell: Another is to please sign up for our newsletter. We send it out weekly. And we share lots of tips and resources within it. And you can just do that at our website, which is buildupadvisory.com. And you can sign up right there on the website. And right before you sign up, it’d be great if you could take a governance assessment, right? And so, we offer a free governance assessment where you can go on to the assessment and you go through it, answer questions about your board. You can have your colleagues take it as well if there’s more people on staff within your organization. And what we do is we take the information and then we come back with a governance assessment for you to give you an idea of where your organization is in terms of its governance and in terms of its development. Please pop on over to buildupadvisory.com. Take the assessment and also sign up for our newsletter.
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: Sounds great. I get the newsletter. NNJ was featured in the newsletter a couple times. So, thank you.
Nic Campbell: That’s right.
Angelyn Frazer-Giles: So, we appreciate that. But –
Katy Thompson: And that concludes this week’s episode. As you heard, general support allows nonprofits to have long-term vision while flexibly and easily addressing their immediate needs, which is particularly relevant in crises as we saw when many funders quickly converted their project support grants to general support grants in the height of the COVID-19 pandemic. We are curious to know how you are thinking about general support funding as either a nonprofit or a funder. Send us your answers and infrastructure comments and questions to hello@buildupadvisory.com.
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Nic Campbell: Thank you for listening to this episode of Nonprofit Build Up. To access the show notes, additional resources and information on how you can work with us, please visit our website at buildupadvisory.com. We invite you to listen again next week as we share another episode about scaling impact by building infrastructure and capacity in the nonprofit sector. Keep building bravely.
Ricardo Castro possesses that rare combination of legal background with solid strategic and operational organizational leadership. He has an extensive knowledge of the successful development and management of mission-critical NFP organizations serving a diverse global constituency. In his current position as General Counsel and Secretary of the International Rescue Committee, he is a member of the senior leadership team and is responsible for the legal affairs of the organization both domestically and internationally. In his immediately preceding position as General Counsel of the Clinton Foundation, he was also a member of the senior leadership team and was likewise responsible for the Foundation’s global legal affairs.