This week on the Nonprofit Build Up® is part two of a two-part series led by Build Up’s CEO and managing attorney, Nic Campbell, and moderated by Shelli Warren of Biz Chicks, Team and Leadership Coach, and Stacking Your Team podcast host.
You can jump back to part one of the conversation to learn more about defining culturally competent leadership where Nic is talking about all things cultural competence, leadership and effective teams. Originally published on October 4th, 2022, Nic continues to explore what cultural competence means, its competitive edge in business and its significance when embodied not only across teams but in leadership positions as well.
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Listen to Part One here:
Listen to Part Two here:
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Read podcast transcription below:
Part One
[Upbeat Music]
NIC CAMPBELL: You’re listening to the Nonprofit Build Up podcast, and I’m your host, Nic Campbell. I want to support movements that can interrupt cycles of injustice and inequity and shift power towards vulnerable and marginalized communities. I’ve spent years working in and with nonprofits and philanthropies, and I know how important infrastructure is to outcomes. On this show, we’ll talk about how to build capacity to transform the way you and your organization work.
STEF WONG: Hi, everyone. It’s Stef, Build Up’s Executive Portfolio Liaison. This week on the Nonprofit Build Up is part one of a two-part series led by Build Up’s CEO and Managing Attorney, Nic Campbell, and moderated by Shelli Warren, Team and Leadership Coach of BizChix and Stacking Your Team Podcast host.
Over the next two weeks on the Nonprofit Build Up, Nic is talking all things cultural competence, leadership, and effective teams. Originally published on October 4, 2022, Nic deep dives into what cultural competence means, its competitive edge in business, and its significance when embodied, not only across teams but in leadership positions as well. With that, here’s defining culturally competent leadership with Nic Campbell.
[INTERVIEW]
SHELLI WARREN: Let me introduce you to our guest today. Nic Campbell is a wife, a mom of two girls and two cats. She was born in the Barbados and now lives in Connecticut. She’s also a member of the Leadership Lab. As an attorney and a CEO of three companies in one, she leads a virtual team of 10 that’s growing quickly. She’s on a mission at Build Up Advisory Group, which is one of three companies with a vision to strengthen brave nonprofits and philanthropies, transforming outcomes for historically marginalized communities through the creation of 100 big battable grassroots organizations by 2025.
Nic and her team provide fiscal, legal, and infrastructure leadership insight for organizations that are focused on capacity building and breaking glass ceilings in a really big way. Together, they intentionally support organizations that are no longer satisfied with doing business as usual. Come and meet Nic.
Welcome to the Stacking Your Team Podcast, Nic Campbell. I am so happy to have you here. You are one of those intriguing members of the Leadership Lab, who is so dynamic, so brilliant. Then I also feel like there’s a little of this air of mystery about you. There’s this essence about you that like when you’re on a call and you’re talking to us, you own the space. Like you really know how to show up and be present and always add value into whatever you’re sharing. Yet at the same point, I’m always just so intrigued to learn more about you. So I am so thrilled to be here. Not only am I going to learn more about you but so are our listeners and, of course, so are your peers in the Leadership Lab that tune in every single week.
NIC CAMPBELL: I really appreciate the kind words, and I’m really looking forward to talking more with you about what we do and how we actually show up in our sector.
SHELLI WARREN: Well, tell me all about it. Now, I know you were born and raised in the Barbados. But where are you now? How has your life evolved? Tell us about the family. I know you’ve got some kiddos.
NIC CAMPBELL: Yes. So born and raised in the Caribbean. So I’ve lived in Barbados and the Cayman Islands, and I then came to the United States when I was about 12 and lived in the Bronx, in New York. I went to college and law school in Massachusetts. So I’ve really been on the northeast, for all of those listening, in the US. Now, I am in Newtown, Connecticut and really loving where I am. It’s very, very different from New York City. But this is the base of our operations for the Build Up Companies.
I’m married. My husband, his name is Kevin, and I have two little girls Kayden and Nova. So we have a lot going on in our home. We have a lot of space here in Newtown. So that’s really great for the girls so that they can play with each other, with their friends, and just have that space to do that. That’s a little bit about me and where we are.
SHELLI WARREN: You have built up this stellar reputation and a deep network into this incredible niche that I don’t think the majority of people are even aware of. So tell a little bit more about the clientele that you serve and how you help them with their transformation.
NIC CAMPBELL: Yeah, definitely. So I am the CEO and Managing Attorney for the Build Up Companies, and the Build Up Companies is really comprised of three entities. It’s Build Up Advisory Group, which is our management consulting firm. There’s the Campbell Law Firm, which is our law firm. Then there’s Build Up, Inc., which is our nonprofit fiscal sponsor or capacity builder. So each of these companies has its own separate goals, but they’re all working together to interrupt cycles of injustice and inequity throughout the globe. We do this by focusing exclusively on organizational infrastructure.
So when we look at Build Up Advisory Group, we are working within three main areas. So it’s governance, how is your board set up, and do you have the right governance within the organization to put the right amount of oversight and accountability over your work? If there’s grantmaking, do you have the right processes in place? Are they reflective of your organizational values? So when you say, for example, as a funder, that you’d like to get money very quickly to those who need it around the globe, is it taking you four months to get a very simple grant out of the door, and if so, why? So we’re really working very closely on all kinds of questions that come up within that process.
Then the third area is around structuring. How are you set up, both internally and externally, as an organization? Do you have the right structure in place, the right vehicle to do your work? When you look at your team, are they positioned and set up to do their best work? Do they have the capacity and the training that’s needed? So that’s really the focus within Build Up Advisory Group. We’re working with organizations that have questions around infrastructure, around their capacity to do their best work. They want to understand how is our organization doing and what is that gap and what recommendations do you have for us to kind of close that gap.
Within the law firm, we’re working with, again, brave nonprofits and philanthropies, but also social impact entrepreneurs who are thinking about ways to change the world and have a positive impact on the world, really around social justice efforts. So we focus on nonprofit formation and exemption. So when someone comes to us and says, “We have a great idea. We’d love to turn it into a public charity or a private foundation, which is a charitable organization here in the United States, or maybe a social welfare organization, an organization that really focuses on advocacy of these different social justice issues.”
So we work with them as a thought partner alongside them to help form these entities and help them understand this is what it means to be a public charity, and this is what it means to be a social welfare organization. We also serve as outsourced in-house general counsel, and this is a really unique way for us to show up as a firm. If you look across many firms, they’re not necessarily showing up in this way, and it’s really a hallmark service of ours because the way we look at it is, yes, we’re outside counsel at the end of the day, but we don’t want to be transactional with our clients, like purely transactional. We want it to be built on a relationship.
What that means is when you come to us with a transactional question, “Hey, can you take a look at this agreement,” we’re not asking you questions about the way your program is operating, the way your organization is operating because we get it. We are in team meetings, we are part of these calls, we understand your strategy, and we are looking around corners so that when you bring that transactional question to us, you told us about this. We’re aware of this other thing. So it’s a really important way of the way we work within the law firm.
Then the third entity, Build Up, Inc., we are working with women-led and BIPOC-led projects and initiatives that are focused on marginalized and vulnerable communities to make sure that they have the capacity to do their best work. Our thinking is that when these projects and initiatives come to us for support, we want to make sure that we are helping them understand and learn about what it takes to build out a solid governance structure, what it takes to manage a board. How do you manage your finances? What does your fundraising and development strategy look like? What should it look like? How do you manage a team? So that when they leave Build Up, Inc., and they go off and become these independent public charities, for example, that they can say, “We know how to run an organization,” and they are much stronger afterward than when they first showed up.
I’ve worked with fiscal sponsors for many years within them, with them, alongside them, and as a funder within a funder, examining those relationships. One thing that really struck me and stood out to me was the relationship that really exists between the project and the fiscal sponsor or the kind of capacity building support that was being provided by that fiscal sponsor to the project, and I thought that there could be so much more that could be done. I also was interested in the connections being made between the projects. There wasn’t a lot of conversation happening between projects that we’re doing very similar or complementary work. So we want to make sure that at Build Up Inc., we’re serving as that connector for projects. But we’re also serving as a convener within the sector to kind of talk about fiscal sponsorship, what it means, and a new way to look at it as really capacity building at the end of the day. So that’s the overview of the companies, how we work, and who we work with.
SHELLI WARREN: Well, Nic, it’s incredible what you’re doing, and I have to ask. How do you fit in to these three different companies? Like what role do you play, and how do you divide your time in order to really honor the work that you’re wanting to do? Because as your coach here in the Leadership Lab, when I hear the complexity of these three different companies, and I know you are such the face of the brand, and it’s really you’re intrinsically on a mission to help these clients that you’re working with, my fear for you is that you’re overcapacity with everything that you’re doing.
Then the next fear is that you’re going to start to beat yourself up because you’re not going to be able to provide that same stellar high level of services to every single client within these three companies. So tell me, how have you designed your business and your team to make sure that those three different sections or sectors of your overarching company works well? What are you working through? Because I feel like you’re continuing to evolve. You’re just continuing to grow and continuing to evolve.
NIC CAMPBELL: No. I think it’s a great question, and I definitely think it’s a work in progress. It also comes about through doing the thing. So when – Build Up Companies are about three years old. So we’re very, very young, and we currently work with really amazing organizations and leaders, which is just a testament to the team that we build and the kind of work that we do.
When I started first year, even first year and a half, it was just me, and so really having to realize very early on that these things have to be faced. So although the three entities were in the vision and really some were – The law firm, for example, was a latter part of that vision. You had to realize that you have to focus on one first and go to the other. To your point, when you understand that the vision is about the three entities and how they could be working together, and we’ll say working together and doing this amazing work, everything would sort of fall into place.
But then being at a place where you’re focusing on just one entity and really within that one entity trying to understand what will be the service that you will be providing, what kind of thought partnership can you provide to leaders to make them say, “Wow, this is such added value,” and to make the work really interesting. So just through working through all of that, understanding that, one, you have to face it and being very clear on what do the next six months look like. What does the next year look like? Setting goals and then making sure that you’re constantly evaluating.
What I realized, again, very early on is you can set goals. But if you’re just setting annual goals and just kind of saying, “Okay. Well, I’ll check in at the end of the year to see how it’s gone,” you don’t have that ability to do any sort of course correction right away. So what I found works really well was every single week at the end of each week doing an evaluation of how that week went against all of those goals and objectives that I had put together. So it took some time. At some moments, you would say, “Well, why am I focusing on goals and objective? I need to go get clients. I need to start building up the other entities.” But it’s like you need to have the fundamentals in place. You need to have that infrastructure in place to then say, “Okay, how am I going to continue to build on that?”
So definitely about phasing, definitely focused on goal setting. Then I would also say realizing that you cannot do it by yourself. I think in the very beginning, that starts out with consultants and partners that you might work with where you say, “Hey, that partner can do this part of the work. That consultant, I can engage them to maybe handle this particular deliverable.” Then that grows into staff, a team of folks of employees that are working with you on a day-to-day basis and are engaged in the work and focused on the vision of the companies.
I would say that not being afraid to delegate and to allow folks to run with their ideas, understanding the larger vision is what has really been helpful. Because without a team of people, and that’s of consultants, of partners, of advice advisors, of staff members, you’re not able to really build out the kind of vision that I described, right? Like I have a vision that I think is very big, and it cannot be carried just by one person.
So if I thought in my mind, okay, I can do every single thing that I’ve described, I think I would still be where I was three years ago. Instead, we’re at a place where we have very high client retention. We work on very interesting projects. We’re really trying to push the needle in the space in which we’re working, and we’re excited about the projects that come on board. That really couldn’t be done without this idea of like how do you pace yourself to make sure that you continue to progress and move forward, but that you’re giving yourself that grace to correct, to evaluate, and to realize that some things could be done better. But you’re not spending that entire time beating yourself up and not allowing yourself that grace.
One of our core principles and core values is really that we stay ever learning, right? So just that concept in and of itself is that you are constantly going to find ways to improve, and that’s a good thing, right? You’re going to constantly find ways to learn, and that’s a great thing. You’re going to constantly find ways in which you could have done that better, and that’s an amazing thing. So just reframing that to think about it, that has been immensely helpful in our growth.
SHELLI WARREN: Well, it makes everything exciting as well. Like you’re feeling your own personal growth, you’re seeing the growth of the business, and then also seeing the growth of professional personal development right across your whole team. Now, I love how you describe this as introducing these new entities within the business in phases and that you were really diligent to make sure that the foundations were solid before you look to bring on more clients into that new entity or to even expand onto the other ones. I know you also were intentional in your hiring because your team has grown so much. So tell us a little bit more about the people that make up your team and some of the roles that you have and how you’ve put together that structure.
NIC CAMPBELL: So I am very focused on hiring because I think, again, the people are really the core of infrastructure. So when we talk about infrastructure and building capacity within organizations, we think about systems. We think about operations and SOPs. Those things are critical. They’re very, very important. But without the right people on your team, all of that is useless.
So I am very focused on do we have the right team member in the right position on the team at the right time? So really focused on how do we create hiring processes that reflect the kind of work that we do, the kind of environment in which we work. We are a startup, and we’re a startup that has a lot of interest. We have, again, as I mentioned, high client retention. So that means clients are coming back and saying, “Hey, what about this other project, and could you continue to help us do this thing, and we’d love to extend our time together.”
So when you have that kind of volume and pace, things are moving very, very quickly. It takes a certain kind of person that’s going to not only just survive in that environment because I think a lot of folks can kind of get in and tread water and survive. But you really – What I’m looking for is I want those individuals that are thriving, that are saying, “I understand that, yes, we’re laying that foundation, but we are building as we go.” So how do you hold the foundation in one hand and then still try to build in the other and realizing that you’re going to make mistakes along the way? Everything’s not going to be perfect. We don’t have this structure of the –
We’ve been around for 20 years at this point. So we can say, “Hey, remember 15 years ago when this happened? We were three years old, right, or two years old at that point when I started hiring.” So to think about the kind of individual that will thrive in that kind of environment, you’ve got to get like really some unique individuals that, one, they are going to appreciate that level of autonomy, but they’re also going to be able to work collaboratively in a work environment.
I think that that’s the tension that we usually find. You can find folks who are like, “I’m willing to do this all on my own.” Then you’re going to find folks that are saying, “I really need a ton of hand holding and guidance.” So that’s ultimately at the core what I’m looking for in terms of someone who can step into the environment. That’s going to change, right? Because sooner or later, we’ll be five years old. We’ll be seven years old. At that point, our infrastructure is going to change, our processes. The way that we’re constantly building is going to slow down a bit. We’re always going to be building, forever learning, but we’re not going to be building at this pace. So you start to think about different types of folks that you might want on the team at that point.
But that’s how I hold it. I also think about subject matter experts, particularly based on the kinds of clients that are coming to us. We have a lot of folks who are leading grantmaking organizations. So we want someone who can understand grantmaking. Again, we only work with nonprofits and philanthropies. So having experience with nonprofits and philanthropies is really critical because there’s a language to this. When clients come to us, we ask them, “Why did you choose us? Why are you working with us?” They’ll just share why they’re doing that. What we hear nearly I would say 100% of the time is, “You get us. You understand what it’s like to be in-house, what it’s like to work within a nonprofit organization.”
So when you come up with these ideas, they’re practical, right? They’re based on experience, and you know what has worked and what hasn’t, and you can talk with us in that way. So I’m looking for individuals that at least at the advisor level, when I’m thinking of counsel for the law firm, I’m thinking of vice presidents for Build Up Advisory Group, I want folks who can very easily talk with stakeholders within the nonprofit sector, who can say to executive directors and presidents, “Here’s what I think, and it’s based on no 10 years, 15 years of experience in doing this.”
We also have really important project managers on our team. For those roles, I want to see someone who is very organized, who is inquisitive, who is, again, as fast as continuous improvement. Another one of our core values is excellence, right? So in addition to the ever learning, we’re also thinking about how can we do this in an excellent way. Again, you can see that tension where you’re in a startup environment. Let’s not conflate excellence with perfection, right? So what is excellent for our client at this time, given the resources that we have based on what it is that we know they need?
So I want to have strategic thinkers in those roles that are able to take a look at a variety of pieces to a puzzle, essentially, and say, “I’m going to put this all together in a good way, and I’m excited about doing that, and I’m going to bring in the right people to help put in additional pieces.” So you want somebody who’s thinking about project management in that way and is excited about it. I want people who are very organized, who appreciate asking questions about things they don’t understand. Because I think in those questions come a lot of the innovation that really helps to improve our services.
Then last thing I’ll say is we have folks that are not necessarily client-facing. They’re more internal-facing, and they’re helping to build out our infrastructure and our operations. That is really critical because those roles really are the connecting fibers, so to speak, of the three entities, and they’re the folks that are looking across all those entities and really taking a step back and being able to say, “I see this process coming up in Build Up Advisory Group. I think we need something similar in TCLF.” Or, “I see this question coming up in Build Up, Inc. I think this is something that might actually benefit the other entity.”
So for those roles, I’m really looking for folks who are analytical, who are, again, strategic thinkers, and who have the ability to explain or communicate complex pieces of information in a way that folks can understand and digest and take it forward. Because we’re talking sometimes about IT, such a property, topics that people might think, “Oh, what’s the big deal? How does this impact my work?” But then to be able to translate that to them I think is a real skill. So that’s really how the team is built out at this point, and those are the kinds of attributes that I look for in team members.
SHELLI WARREN: Well, no wonder you have such high retention rates, Nic, because you’ve created this high level of leadership within every single role that you have. If I was to look at your org chart, I would see all these roles, and there’s a big component of leadership within every single one of those roles, regardless whether it’s an admin role, a project management role, a VP role, or like a senior advisor role. You have this expectation that we are going to serve our clientele with this sense of world class excellence.
What comes with that is a lot about attitude, follow through, integrity, character, all of those things because you’re also role modeling for your own team what it’s like to work within an incredible, tactical, and vibrant, and diverse team. You then go out and showcase to your clients how they can do that as well.
[OUTRO]
NIC CAMPBELL: Thank you for listening to this episode of Nonprofit Build Up. To access the show notes, additional resources, and information on how you can work with us, please visit our website at buildupadvisory.com. We invite you to listen again next week, as we share another episode about scaling impact by building infrastructure and capacity in the nonprofit sector. Keep building bravely.
[END]
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Part Two:
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:08] Nic Campbell: You’re listening to the Nonprofit Build Up podcast. And I’m your host, Nic Campbell. I want to support movements that can interrupt cycles of injustice and inequity and shift power towards vulnerable and marginalized communities. I’ve spent years working in and with nonprofits and philanthropies, and I know how important infrastructure is to outcomes. On this show, we’ll talk about how to build capacity to transform the way you and your organization work.
[00:00:40] Stef Wong: Hi, everyone. It’s Stef, Build Up’s Executive Portfolio Liaison. This week on the Nonprofit Build Up is part two of a two-part series led by Build Up’s CEO and managing attorney, Nic Campbell, and moderated by Shelli Warren of Biz Chicks, Team and Leadership Coach, and Stacking Your Team podcast host.
You can jump back to part one of the conversation to learn more about defining culturally competent leadership where Nic is talking about all things cultural competence, leadership and effective teams. Originally published on October 4th, 2022, Nic continues to explore what cultural competence means, its competitive edge in business and its significance when embodied not only across teams but in leadership positions as well.
And here’s defining culturally competent leadership with Nic Campbell.
[00:01:30] Nic Campbell: She’s not simply dreaming about doing it differently. No, no. She’s actually doing it along the way. She’s guiding organizations to do it too. If you’ve always wanted to specialize your consulting services and boldly position yourself out front while doing work that aligns beautifully to your own core values, my guest today is going to inspire you. You’re going to hear how she structured her companies, her team and how culturally competent leadership is a thread that runs through everything she does.
[00:02:11] Shelli Warren: Welcome to the Stacking Your Team podcast. If you are a service-based business owner who’s wanting to elevate your capabilities to lead your team, you’re in the right place. Running a business, casting your vision and shifting from practitioner to CEO takes courage, structure and the support of a team. But not just any team. So, if you’re thinking that because you own a successful business and you’ve hired people to come and join you, then you really should know how to lead them, stop beating yourself up. And instead, stick with me and stay open to learning how you can improve your leadership skills here every single week.
The Stacking Your Team podcast was launched over four years ago as a companion resource to the award-winning Biz Chicks podcast hosted by Natalie Eckdahl, our CEO and founder, who’s been sharing her incredible free podcast resource for women entrepreneurs since 2014.
Natalie and I both have a big heart for service-based business owners who are juggling life at home, in their community, their industry and, of course, in their business. I’m your host, Shelli Warren, your Team and Leadership Coach here at Biz Chicks Inc. where I lean on my 25-plus years of experience leading people at a Fortune 50 Corporation.
I’m here to help you build a diverse and agile team of high performing people who have a passion for winning and a deep desire to transform the lives of the clientele that you serve. Let’s get to it with this reminder that our long-standing listeners will certainly recognize.
The team that got you here may not be the team that will get you there.
[00:03:53] Shelli Warren: Let me introduce you to our guest today. Nic Campbell is a wife, a mom of two girls and two cats. She was born in the Barbados and now lives in Connecticut. She’s also a member of the Leadership Lab. And as an attorney and a CEO of three companies in one, she leads a virtual team of 10 that’s growing quickly.
She’s on a mission at Build Up Advisory Group, which is one of three companies with a vision to strengthen brave nonprofits and philanthropies, transforming outcomes for historically marginalized communities through the creation of 100 big bettable grassroots organizations by 2025.
Nic and her team provide fiscal, legal and infrastructure leadership insight for organizations that are focused on capacity building and breaking glass ceilings in a really big way. Together, they intentionally support organizations that are no longer satisfied with doing business as usual.
Come and meet Nic.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:05:05] Shelli Warren: Welcome to the Stacking Your Team podcast, Nic Campbell. I am so happy to have you here. You are one of those intriguing members of the Leadership Lab who is so dynamic, so brilliant. And then, I also feel like there’s a little bit of this air of mystery about you. There’s this essence about you that, really, when you’re on a call and you’re talking to us, you own the space. You really know how to show up and be present and always add value into whatever you’re sharing. And yet at the same point, I’m always just so intrigued to learn more about you.
I am so thrilled to be here. Not only am I going to learn more about you, but so are our listeners. And of course, so are your peers in the Leadership Lab that tune in every single week.
[00:05:51] Nic Campbell: I really appreciate the kind words. And I’m really looking forward to talking more with you about what we do and how we actually show up in our sector.
[00:06:01] Shelli Warren: Well, tell me all about it. Now, I know you were born and raised in the Barbados. But where are you now? How has your life evolved? Tell us about the family. I know you’ve got some kiddos.
[00:06:13] Nic Campbell: Yeah. Born and raised in the Caribbean. I’ve lived in Barbados and the Cayman Islands, and then came to the United States when I was about 12 and lived in the Bronx in New York. Went to college and law school in Massachusetts. And so, I’ve really been on the Northeast for all of those listening off in the US.
And now I am in Newtown, Connecticut and really loving where I am. it’s very, very different from New York City. But this is the base of our operations for the Build Up companies.
I’m married. My husband, his name is Kevin. And I have two little girls, Kaden and Nova. We have like a lot going on in our home. We have a lot of space here in Newtown. So that’s really great for the girls so that they can play with each other, with their friends, and just have that space to do that. So, yeah, that’s a little bit about me and where we are.
[00:07:14] Shelli Warren: And you have built up this stellar reputation and a deep network into this incredible niche that I don’t think people, the majority of people, are even aware of. Tell us a little bit more about the clientele that you serve and how you help them with their transformation.
[00:07:34] Nic Campbell: Yeah, definitely. I am the CEO and managing attorney for the Build Up companies. And the Build Up companies is really comprised of three entities. It’s Build Up Advisory Group, which is our management consulting firm. There’s the Campbell Law Firm, which is our law firm. And then there’s Build Up Inc., which is our nonprofit a fiscal sponsor or capacity holder.
And so, each of these companies has its own separate goals, but they’re all working together to interrupt cycles of injustice and inequity throughout the globe. And we do this by focusing exclusively on organizational infrastructure.
When we look at Build Up Advisory Group, we are working within three main areas. It’s governance. How is your board set up? Do you have the right governance within your organization? Do you have right amount of oversight and accountability over your work? There’s grant making. Do you have the right processes in place? Are they reflective of your organizational values?
When you say, for example, as a funder that you’d like to get money very quickly to those who need it around the globe, is it taking you four months to get a very simple grant out of the door? And if so, why? We’re really working very closely on all kinds of questions that come up within that process.
And then the third area is around structuring. How are you set up both internally and externally as an organization? Do you have right structure in place? The right vehicle to do your work? And when you look at your team, are they positioned and set up to do their best work? Do they have the capacity and the training that’s needed? And so, that’s really the focus within Build Up Advisory Group. We’re working with organizations that have questions around infrastructure, around their capacity to do their best work. And they want to understand how is our organization doing? And what is that gap? And what recommendations do you have for us to kind of close that gap?
Within the law firm, we’re working with, again, brave nonprofits and philanthropies, but also social impact entrepreneurs who are thinking about ways to change the world and have a positive impact in the world really around social justice efforts. We focus on nonprofit formation and exemption. When someone comes to us and says, “We have a great idea. We’d love it to become – Love to turn it into a public charity or a private foundation,” which is a charitable organization here in the United States. Or maybe a social welfare organization. An organization that really focuses on advocacy of these different social justice.
We work with them and really show up as a thought partner alongside them to help form these entities and help them understand this is what it means to be a public charity. And this is what it means to be a social welfare organization.
We also serve as outsourced in-house general counsel. And this is a really unique way for us to show up as a firm. If you look across many firms, they’re not necessarily showing up in this way. And it’s really a hallmark service of ours, because the way we look at it is, yes, we’re outside counsel at the end of the day. But we don’t want to be transactional with our clients. Like, purely transactional. We want it to be built on a relationship.
And so, what that means is when you come to us with a transactional question, “Hey, can you take a look at this agreement?” We’re not asking you questions about the way your program is operating, the way your organization is operating, because we get it. We’re in team meetings. We are part of these calls. We understand your strategy. And we are looking around corners so that when you bring that transactional question to us, you told us about this, we’re aware of this other thing. It’s a really important way of the way we work within the law firm.
And then the third entity, Build Up Inc., we are working with women-led and BIPOC-led projects and initiatives that are focused on marginalized and vulnerable communities make sure that they have the capacity to do their best work. Our thinking is that when these projects and initiatives come to us for support, we want to make sure that we are helping them understand and learn about what it takes to build out a solid government structure? What it takes to manage a board? How do you manage your finances? What does your fundraising and development strategy look like? What should it look like? How do you manage a team? So that when they leave Build Up Inc. and they go off and become these independent public charities, for example, that they can say we know how to run an organization, and they are much stronger afterward than when they first showed up.
I’ve work with fiscal sponsors for many years within them, with them, alongside them, and as a funder within a funder examining those relationships. And one thing that’s really struck me and stood out to me was the relationship that really exists between the project and the fiscal sponsor, the kind of capacity building support that was being provided by that fiscal sponsor through the project. And I thought that there could be so much more that could be done.
I also was interested in the connections being made between the projects. There wasn’t a lot of conversation happening between projects that were doing very similar or a complimentary work. And so, we want to make sure that at Build Up Inc., we’re serving as that connector for projects, but we’re also serving as a convener within the sector to kind of talk about fiscal sponsorship, what it means, and a new way to look at it as really capacity building at the end of the day.
That’s the overview of the companies. How we work and who we work with.
[00:12:54] Shelli Warren: Well, Nic, it’s incredible what you’re doing. And I have to ask, how do you fit in to these three different companies? What role do you play? And how do you divide your time in order to really honor the work that you’re wanting to do? Because as your coach here in the Leadership Lab, when I hear the complexity of these three different companies, and I know you are such the face of the brand. And it’s, really, you’re intrinsically on a mission to help these clients that you’re working with. My fear for you is that you’re overcapacity with everything you’re doing.
And then next fear is that you’re going to start to beat yourself up because you’re not going to be able to provide that same stellar, high-level of services to every single client within these three companies. Tell me, how have you designed your business and your team to make sure that those three different sections or sectors of your overarching company works well? And what are you working through? Because I feel like you’re continuing to evolve. You’re just continuing to grow and continuing to evolve.
[00:14:09] Nic Campbell: No. I think it’s a great question. And I definitely think it’s a work in progress. And it also comes about through doing the thing. Build Up companies are about three years old. So, we’re very, very young. And we currently work with really amazing organizations and leaders, which is just a testament to the team that we built and the kind of work that we do.
And when I started first year, even first year and a half, it was just me. And so, really having to realize very early on that these things have to be faced. Although the three entities were in the vision, and really some were – The law firm, for example, was a latter part of that vision, we had to realize that you have to focus on one first [inaudible 00:14:55] of the other. And to your point, when you under understand that the vision is about the three entities and how they could be working together, and once they’re working together and doing this amazing work, everything would sort of fall into place. But then being at a place where you’re focusing on just one entity and, really, within that one entity, trying to understand what will be the service that you will be providing? What kind of thought partnership can you provide to leaders to make them say, “Wow! This is such added value.” And to make the work really interesting?
Just through working through all of that, understanding that, one, you have to phase it and being very clear on what do the next six months look like? What does the next year look like? Setting goals and then making sure that you’re constantly evaluating.
What I realized, again, very early on is you can set goals. But if you’re just setting annual goals and just kind of saying, “Okay, well, I’ll check in at the end of the year to see how it’s gone,” you don’t have that ability to do any sort of course correction.
And so, really what I found worked really well was, every single week, at the end of each week, doing an evaluation of how that week went against all of those goals and objectives that I put together. It took some time. And in some moments you would say, “Well, why am I focusing on goals and objectives? I need to go get clients. I need to start building out the other entities.” But it’s like you need to have the fundamentals in place. You need to have that infrastructure in place to then say, “Okay, how am I going to continue to build on that?” Definitely about phasing. Definitely focused on goal setting.
And then I would also say realizing that you cannot do it by yourself. And I think in the very beginning, that starts out with consultants and partners that you might work with where you say, “Okay, that partner can do this part of the work. That consultant, I can engage them to maybe handle this particular deliverable.” And then that grows into staff, right? A team of folks of employees that are working with you on a day-to-day basis and are engaged in the work and focus on the vision of the companies.
And I would say that you know not being afraid to delegate and to allow folks to run with their ideas, understanding the larger vision, is what has really been helpful. Because without a team of people, and that’s of consultants, of partners, of advisors, of staff members, you’re not able to really build out the kind of vision that I described, right? I have a vision that I think is very big and it cannot be carried just by one person.
If I thought in my mind, “Okay, I can do every single thing that I’ve described,” I think I would still be where I was three years ago. And instead, we’re at a place where we have very high client retention. We work on very interesting projects. We’re really trying to push the needle in the space in which you’re working. And we’re excited about the projects that come on board. And I really couldn’t be done without this idea of like how do you pace yourself to make sure that you continue to progress and move forward? But that you’re giving yourself that grace to correct, to evaluate and to realize that some things could be done better. But you’re not spending that entire time beating yourself up and not allowing yourself that grace.
One of our core principles and core values is really that we stay ever learning, right? And so, just that concept in and of itself is that you are constantly going to find ways to improve, and that’s a good thing, right? You’re going to constantly find ways to learn, and that’s a great thing. And you’re going to constantly find ways in which you could have done that better, and that’s an amazing thing. And so, just reframing that to think about it that way has been immensely helpful in our growth.
[00:18:42] Shelli Warren: Well, it makes everything exciting as well. Where you’re feeling your own personal growth, you’re seeing the growth of the business and then also seeing the growth of professional and personal development right across your whole team.
Now, I love how you describe this as introducing these new entities within the business in phases. And that you were really diligent to make sure that the foundations were solid before you look to bring on more clients into that new entity or to even expand onto the other ones.
And I know you also were intentional in your hiring because your team has grown so much. Tell us a little bit more about the people that make up your team and some of the roles that you have, and how you’ve put together that structure.
[00:19:26] Nic Campbell: I am very focused on hiring because I think, again, the people are really the core of infrastructure. When we talk about infrastructure and building capacity within organizations, we think about systems, we think about operations and SOPs. Those things are critical. They’re very, very important. But without the right people on your team, all of that is useless. I am very focused on do we have the right team member in the right position on the team at the right time?
Really focus on how do we create hiring processes that reflect the kind of work that we do? The kind of environment in which we work? We are a startup. And we’re a startup that has a lot of interest. We have, again, as I mentioned, high client retention. That means clients are coming back and saying, “Hey, what about this other project? And could you continue to help us do this thing? And we’d love to extend our time together.”
And so, when you have that kind of volume and pace, things are moving very, very quickly. And it takes a certain kind of person that’s going to not only just survive in that environment, because I think a lot of folks can kind of get in and tread water and survive. What I’m looking for is I want those individuals that are thriving. That are singing, “I understand that, yes, we’re leading that foundation. But we are building as we go.” And so, how do you hold the foundation in one hand and then still try to build in the other and realizing that you’re going to make mistakes along the way? Everything’s not going to be perfect. We don’t have this structure of the, “We’ve been around for 20 years at this point. So, we can say, “Great. Remember 15 years ago when this happened?” We’re three-years-old, right? Or two-years-old at that point when I started hiring.
The thing about the kind of individual that will thrive in that kind of environment, you’ve got to get like really some unique individuals that, one, they are going to appreciate that level of autonomy. But they’re also going to be able to work collaboratively in a work environment. And I think that that’s the tension that we usually find. If you can find folks who are like, “I’m willing to do this all on my own.” And then you’re going to find folks that are saying, “I really need a ton of hand-holding and guidance.”
That’s ultimately at the core what I’m looking for in terms of someone who can step into the environment. And that’s going to change, right? Because soon we’ll be five-years-old, we’ll be seven-years-old. And at that point, our infrastructure is going to change, our processes. And the way that we’re constantly building is going to slow down a bit. We’re always going to be building wherever learning. But we’re not going to be building at this pace. And so, you start to think about different types of folks that you might want on the team at that point. But that’s how I hold it.
I also think about subject matter experts particularly based on the kinds of clients that are coming to us. We have a lot of folks who are leading grant-making organizations. We want someone who can understand grant making. Also, again, we only work with nonprofits and philanthropies. Having experience with nonprofits and philanthropies is really critical because there’s a language to this.
And when clients come to us, we ask them, “Why did you choose us? Why are you working with us?” Or they’ll just share why they’re doing that. And what we here nearly, I would say 100% of the time, is, “You get us. You understand what it’s like to be in-house, what it’s like to work within a non-profit organization.” When you come up with these ideas, they’re practical, right? They’re based on experience. And you know what has worked and what hasn’t. And you can talk with us in that way.
And so, I’m looking for individuals at least at the advisor level. When I’m thinking of counsel for the law firm, I’m thinking of vice presidents for Build Up Advisory Group. I want folks who can very easily talk with stakeholders within the nonprofit sector who can say to executive directors and presidents, “Here’s what I think. And it’s based on 10 years, 15 years of experience in doing this.”
We also have really important project managers on our team. And for those roles, I want to see someone who is very organized, who is inquisitive, who, again, is back to this continuous improvement. Another one of our core values is excellence, right? In addition to the ever learning, we’re also thinking about how can we do this in an excellent way? And again, you can see that tension where you’re in a startup environment. Let’s not conflate excellence with perfection, right? What is excellent for a client at this time given the resources that we have based on what it is that we know they need?
And so, I want to have strategic thinkers in those roles that are able to take a look at a variety of pieces to a puzzle, essentially, and say, “I’m going to put this all together in a good way. And I’m excited about doing that. And I’m going to bring in the right people to help put in additional pieces.”
You want somebody who’s thinking about project management in that way that’s excited about it and want people who are very organized, who appreciate asking questions about things they don’t understand. Because I think in those questions come a lot of the innovation that really helps to improve our services.
And then the last thing I’ll say is we have folks that are not necessarily client-facing. They’re more internal-facing. And they’re helping to build out our infrastructure and our operations. And that is really critical. Because those roles really are the connecting fibers, so to speak, of the three entities. And they’re the folks that are looking across all those entities and really taking a step back and being able to say, “I see this process coming up in Build Up Advisory Group. I think we need something similar in TCLF.” Or, “I see this question coming up in Build Up Inc. I think this is something that might actually benefit the other entities.”
For those roles, I’m really looking for folks who are analytical, who are, again, strategic thinkers and who have the ability to explain or communicate complex pieces of information in a way that folks can understand and digest and take it forward. Because we’re talking sometimes about IT, such a property, topics that people might think, “Oh, what’s the big deal? How does this impact my work?” But then to be able to translate that to them I think is a real skill. That’s really how the team is built out at this point. And those are the kinds of attributes that I look for in team members.
[00:25:59] Shelli Warren: Well, no wonder you have such high retention rates, Nic, because you’ve created this high level of leadership within every single role that you have. If I was to look at your org chart, I would see all these roles. And there’s a big component of leadership within every single one of those roles, regardless whether it’s an admin role, a project management role, a VP role or, a senior advisor role. You have this expectation that we are going to serve our clientele with this sense of world-class excellence.
And what comes with that is a lot about attitude, follow through, integrity, character, right? All of those things. Because you’re also role modeling for your own team what it’s like to work within an incredible, tactical, and vibrant, and diverse team. And then you then go out and showcase to your clients how they can do that as well.
And I know one of the things that you are very well versed in, and you talk a lot about this, and there’s a part of you, that helper person, that educational person, that really wants to help people become more fluent in understanding what’s happening in the world these days because it’s so important. Tell us, what’s Nic Campbell’s definition of culturally competent leadership? And why do we need this now?
[00:27:26] Nic Campbell: I think it’s really interesting that you pulled out that thread of leadership from all of the roles that I described, because that’s really how I do envision it. And there’s that tension of just how do you make sure that leadership is coming through and it’s being nurtured and cultivated? When maybe before having this role, folks who had had similar roles were like, “I really wasn’t having that thread pulled, right? And so, I didn’t have as much autonomy. And I had much more structure. And so, do I like it? Do I not?” Even if you thought that you might like it, now you’re actually in a position where you’re kind of forced to step into that position. And how do we sort of balance that out in a good way? And that’s something that we’re thinking through as an organization. Something that I’m thinking through group as the CEO of the company and as a leader of Build Up Companies.
But I think I’m pulling that out as leadership, because when we talk about culturally competent, or someone being culturally competent particularly around like leadership, I do think that cultural competence is a combination of a few things, right? It’s a combination of having adaptive leadership or flexible leadership skills where you’re able to understand who’s in the room? Who your stakeholders are? And then tailoring your own leadership behaviors to make sure that those stakeholders are able to share everything that they wanted to as a result of that leadership. I think that’s a really critical component.
I think the second really big part of being culturally competent is really deep listening skills. And this is said all the time, but I think listening is such a strength. And when you are a good listener and you are actively listening, I think that it can reveal so much of what has been said, but so much of what has not been said. And if you’re going to strive to be culturally competent, you have to become a deep listener. Because now you’re listening for things that’s your own biases might not have otherwise allowed you to hear.
And so, now you’re listening to what has been said? How it’s being said? What’s not been said? And you’re trying to actively ask questions and trying to understand at the end of the day. I think that without this second component, you can’t show up as a culturally competent leader because you don’t have those deep listening skills. And I think that they can be developed. But they have to be in order for cultural competence to come through.
I think I would say the third piece of this is that you have to be focused on collaborative problem solving. You have to come at every situation with the idea that you are going to collaborate with others to address that issue to problem solving. When I say problem solve, not necessarily that there’s this huge problem that’s looming out there. But if there’s an issue, if there’s a question matter that’s in play, you are able to collaboratively work with others to address that issue in an effective way.
And so, those three components, the adaptive leadership, deep listening and collaborative problem solving are what I think create cultural competence. And that’s the way you can become a culturally competent leader.
And I think we’re at the point now where just based on everything that’s happened, particularly here in the United States and around the globe really, we’re recalling it out and saying, “It’s cultural competence.” And I appreciate that because I do think that it is very important.
But the way I’m seeing it is that’s just competence, right? In order to be a good, effective leader, you need those components, right? You can’t show up and say, “I’m going to be tone deaf. I don’t know who’s in the room. I’m barely listening. I’m only going to problem solve the way that I want a problem solve.” No. You have to do it collaboratively. You have to listen. And you have to adapt.
And so, we can lift it up and call it cultural competence. Because, again, I do think that it should have a carved-out space to appreciate that there is something too realizing who’s in the room and that your stakeholders maybe people who have been rendered voiceless. And so, you have a responsibility to show up and ask questions, and try to learn, and be this culturally competent leader. But at the end of the day, I really do just see it as just being competent.
[00:31:53] Shelli Warren: Well, I love how you describe that, because it reminds me about how different the expectations are of leaders now than what they used to be. And I mean, for years, people would just simply skate through a career with collateral damage all around them. And they would continue to be promoted. They would continue to receive all these accolades about the outcomes that they were providing with not a lot of attention put towards how the work was delivered and how did we get that result? Whereas now, people have higher expectations within their leaders. And people are making very big bold decisions about who they want to work for, or with, or alongside, and who they don’t.
It’s to all of our benefit to get more education on what it is that you’re doing that is not meeting those three expectations for your stakeholders, for your team, for your partners, for your pipeline, for your local community, for the industry that you serve. It’s really up to us to decide that we want to do things differently. As a leader who is coaching and role modeling other leaders, what are some of the things that we can do as leaders practically that we can check-in on ourselves to bump up the self-awareness? And then what are some things that we can do to help coach our department leaders, our team leaders, our VPs, those people that are responsible to others on the extended team, how can we help them show up better in these three ways as well?
[00:33:36] Nic Campbell: Yeah, I think that it’s definitely ongoing. It’s not like you do these things and now you’re culturally competent and you never have to work on these things again. And so, I think that just even understanding that there is these components and there’s this framework and you’re trying to always, like you said, ask questions around, “Am I living out each of these components in a good way? And where am I falling short? What’s that Delta?” is really the first step.
And I think one of the pieces of advice that I would provide is when you’re thinking about cultural competence, think about the leadership you have been exposed to. Because the tension that exists right now, right? We can talk about these components. Like, you have to be a deep listener. You’re constantly asking questions. But sometimes, because people are used to the leadership that you described, they appreciate it, right? The aspects of that leadership that you actually appreciate, which is I am being told exactly what to do. There’s structure all the time. Because, again, I don’t really we have that space to decide, “Will I do this? Should I do that?”
And so, there is that tension that we do have to think about and say, “Okay. Well, what is the leadership style that I am used to?” And you list that all out. How does this show up in terms of hiring? How does that show up in terms of general management within the organization? And you list all of the really key aspects of the way we work in your organization out, let’s say on a piece of paper. And then you go through piece by piece and say, “What do I like about this? What do I not like?” And then line it back up against how does that require or involve deep listening? How does that help or facilitate collaborative problem solving? And how is it forcing me to understand who is in the room and appreciate who’s in the room?
And I think if you do that – And it’s a long exercise. And as I mentioned, it’s continuous, right? It’s never like you did it one time and now you have the solution and that’s it. But if you force yourself to do it, one, you’re challenging yourself and your own biases, right? Because we talk about the old-style leadership, and no one likes that. And now we’re stepping into this new culturally competent phase. But there are aspects of that old style that a lot of us still appreciate even if we don’t say it out loud or we don’t even recognize that we actually appreciate it.
If you get very didactic and really articulate, like, “Here’s what I like from this what I’ve known so far in each of these parts of the work in your organization. And how does that line up with this culturally competent leadership?” I think then you’ll start to identify the areas in which there are gaps, there are deltas. And how do you step into that? And then you can talk about resources, and support, and additional leverage that you might need to make sure that you’re plugging those gaps and getting you closer to that culturally competent leadership.
[00:36:32] Shelli Warren: Yeah, I love this. One of my most favorite telltale moments for me or teachable moments for me is I love to hear someone else who’s totally different from me explain a certain circumstance. Because they will choose different language to describe the circumstance and how it’s impacting the business and then what they believe would be the rationale for their next best steps. But they’ll tell it in such a way that always blows my mind because they’re using different language, terms, experiences based on their conditioning that is different from my conditioning.
And so, I literally feel my head explode, right? Because, like, “Wow! I’ve never heard that explained that way. I’ve never even thought about looking at that problem in that way.” But now that you’ve described it with your terms, your terminology, and how you’re looking at this problem, and what you see are the gaps, I see it’s bigger than what I originally thought it was. Let’s compound our efforts here. Let’s really double down on how to get out there and get solved it.
Because I think sometimes we can brush over problems and gaps and constraints because we don’t think it’s that much of a big deal. But when you hear a different person’s perspective, it can really shed the light on, “Yeah, this is affecting a lot more people than I thought it would. And part of our roles as leaders is to make people’s jobs easier, not more difficult. Tell me your experience with working with that broken system every day. And now when you tell me how complex that is, let’s get the help for you too. Let’s fix it, and repair it and move on from there.
I always find it interesting to hear other people explain things, because I know I’m going to learn something different and I’m going to have a whole different viewpoint on it because I listened to how they’re seeing it.
[00:38:27] Nic Campbell: Agreed. And I think that that’s one of the indicators of being culturally competent, right? You’re stepping into situations. Not like, “Oh, I know what’s best. I know the solution.” But you’re fighting for a place of, “Let me listen. Let me ask questions. Let me hear from the folks who are closest to the problem because they likely have all of the information or most of the information that we need to craft a really efficient and effective solution.”
And so, when you start off by asking questions, stepping in with this sort of position of, “I don’t know everything. I want to learn.” That thing is when I start to say, “Wow! We are really on that path of cultural competence.” Because I think sometimes people think, “Well, who would step into a situation thinking they know everything.” But you’ll realize, you start off with a lot of assumptions when you step into any sort of problem-solving type of situation and you’ll see folks jump right to the solution like, “Oh, I heard you okay.” But then you base it on your own experience, right? Which requires bias sometimes. And so, you’re bringing that all to bear to say, “Okay, now here’s the solution that is top-down, is driven by the leader of the organization. I haven’t listened to the stakeholders who are impacted by the problem that we’re trying to solve. But I’m going to now share it with them and say this is the solution that we’ve come up with.”
And so, again, because of that style of leadership, the stakeholders are like banks, but then they go off to use it and it doesn’t work. And those aren’t speaking up. And so it becomes that cycle. I think all of this does start with taking that position of I don’t know what’s best, right? Someone else likely who’s experiencing this may know what’s better. And I want to hear from them. I want to ask questions. And I want to understand so that we can collaboratively problem solve.
[00:40:18] Shelli Warren: And that’s really the kind of workplace culture that we all want, right? We all want to feel like we’re part of the solution. Not being dictated to how and what we’re going to do next and within our role. I love that. What are you doing Nic, yourself personally, to stay abreast of just what’s happening out there in the world? And specifically, people are coming to you. They look to you for your leadership capability, your insight, your fresh ideas. And you have this natural ability to build a relationship with someone. That’s just natural for you. But for a lot of people, it’s not. What are you doing to stay abreast of what’s happening so that you can continue to be ready to go in and look like help to help solve all these various problems that are out there?
[00:41:05] Nic Campbell: I think I’ve in such a unique and awesome position given the work that we do, because we are working from – We’re working from a capacity building perspective. So, we are within lots of different areas. So, we are in environmental justice. We’re in social justice. We’re in reproductive rights issues. We are really running all across the sector because everyone needs infrastructure, that organizational support and leverage.
I also get the chance to talk with not only executive management teams and executive leaders, but also board members, and chairs, and founders of organizations. I also get the opportunity to talk with team members, team leads really across the organization. When I talk about a problem or I raise a question, I can hear it from the chair of the board, from the founder, all the way through to the executive director, the president, the administrative assistant who is also affected or impacted by this issue.
I get to receive or get to hear range of responses on this particular issue or question that I’ve raised. And that’s just one organization. And I’m doing this over and over again in multiple entities, in different perspectives, different ways. And so, I’m getting so much information. And as you mentioned, we are relational. And so, it’s not just asking the question and moving on, but trying to understand why they’re responding the way they are. Why they have the insight that they have? And again, we’re doing that across the organization.
If you imagine that just multiplied day after day, year after year, we have so much information that informs the way we work as a team and as a company. That’s how we stay abreast of everything, right? We’re talking to people. We’re talking to the people that are being impacted by the kinds of questions that are coming up for us, the issues that we are facing. And we’re asking what kind of support do you need? What kind of resources? How is it challenging for you? How is it showing up?
And again, hearing from the founder, hearing from the executive director, hearing from the administrative team is extremely helpful. We’re also then taking that information not only informing the way we work, but then the way we show up with our partners. When we engage with other organizations who might be consulting in this space and they’re thinking of a way or asking about, “How do we approach these kinds of organizations with this kind of issue?” We’re sharing as well and saying, “Here is what we have been learning about. Here’s what we’ve been hearing. Here’s how we’ve been approaching it.” And we are then listening to them to see how they’ll adapt their approach. What kind of approach has worked for them? What has not worked? And we’re doing that again in different organizations with multiple partners that we have, but also within this membership organizations as well.
We really stay abreast by, first and foremost, talking with people, being a part of membership organizations within the space. We read a ton within the sector. And we put out a lot of thought leadership as well.
[00:44:20] Shelli Warren: You have an incredible repertoire, I would say, or body of work between your podcast, your blogs, your LinkedIn articles. You’re doing an exceptional job, you, Nic, and the team, to be able to really position yourself as that person that is there to help people move their goals forward.
And as I’m listening to you today, the biggest takeaway I have here about you and your team and the work that you do is that you have a lot to share. And you’re also very open to hear others. There’s this wonderful sense of there’s this reciprocal relationship that’s built between all of your clients, including your team members, like your internal team. I think there’s that give and take. You’re here to give there to also receive from each other. It’s just a wonderful synergy that you’re creating.
[00:45:09] Nic Campbell: I appreciate you saying that. And it’s really the way that we strive to work, right? That, again, being ever learning. But also, being brave enough to say, “This is my vision. This is how I’m thinking about it. And I want to hear from. How is it going? What’s the feedback?” And then being able to, again, step into that leadership role and say, “Okay, how do I do this in a culturally competent way? Who’s impacted? What are the questions I can ask?” And that’s really where we are trying to be so that we can come up with this collaborative problem-solving approach. That’s the way we want to work. I’m really happy that it’s coming through and what we’re sharing outside or externally.
[00:45:53] Shelli Warren: Well, it really is. How did the Leadership Lab fit into all of this vision?
[00:45:56] Nic Campbell: Yeah. When it was just me, there was no team to manage. I didn’t have to write anything down. I just kind of put things in my mind. And it went very smoothly. But as you start to grow a team, particularly a team of employees, and then you have that mix of employees and consultants, which we call engagement advisors, you want to make sure that you are creating a team culture. You’re creating an organizational culture. You have – I spoke about our organizational values. But how do you make sure that those things show up in your hiring as you’re bringing other folks on the team? And I also talked about delegation. Now you’re delegating things. How do you make sure that things are still operating the way they should or the way you envision the culture is being built out? Again, the way you envision? And that it’s being maintained. Because now it has to be maintained by the team. And so, you want them to call you out on things. Like, “Hey, our culture is supposed to be this, this and this. And I’m seeing these things that I don’t think align with that. And I want that.”
And so, when you think about all of those things and then also realizing you’re running a business and you still have to go out and get clients, and there’s sales, and marketing and all those other things, very quickly, or I very quickly realize that I need help, right? Again, I am stepping into a situation and saying, “I’m not the person that knows everything about this thing. There may be others, or there are others that know much more than I do.” And how can I show up and listen so that I can create this really effective solution for my company and my team?
And so, I listen to Stacking Your Team podcast. So, I knew of you, and knew Biz Chicks, with Natalie. And I wanted to hear more about Leadership Lab and what kind of support and resources I could receive so that I could help build out my team, which was growing really rapidly. Manage that team in a good way while still also balancing client work. And even if I could identify that delta between where I am and where I ultimately want to be, but at least I knew, “Okay, this is where I want to go.” And I have that delta, and I have some support, and resources, and leverage to get me there.
And so, working with you and the Leadership Lab team and the folks in the Leadership Lab, it’s just amazing, because sometimes you think you’re out there by yourself. That no one really gets it because you’re running a company, and you’re building out a team, and you want to – Again, you have this big vision and you’re trying to balance all these things. And so, to hear from other women who are doing the same thing and they’re also balancing their personal lives with families or whatever is happening within their personal lives, it’s just really helpful from that perspective to hear from others the questions that are being raised by Leadership Lab members. They’re also very helpful, right?
To just say, “Right, I have that question. I hadn’t yet formulated it. But that’s a question I do have.” And to hear the responses from you and from others has been very, very helpful to me as I plan for next steps.
And I think another thing that has been really useful is that there are lots of different folks in the Leadership Lab. They’re at different stages of their development. I get a chance to look ahead to say, “Oh, wow! That’s what it could look like in five years. That’s what it can look like in seven years, right? Or year seven.” And so, just to see like, “Oh, these are the kinds of questions that are coming up for them. This is how they’re thinking about building out their team, or the struggles, or challenges they have had.” And that helps me to think about how can I kind of safeguard against that, or plan for that, or learn from what they’ve just shared? To me, it’s just been extremely valuable to spend the time learning and sharing with the other women within Leadership Lab.
[00:50:03] Shelli Warren: Well, we adore having you there in the group. And I know that your Insight that you’re bringing just in terms of your law background, your not-for-profit background, this high level of client care that comes with you as well that’s part of the package within Nic, I’m also really excited to see you help guide us through this culturally competent leadership style and really be that guide that will be able to say, “Have you thought about this?” Or I have a client that have similar situation, and here’s how we helped guide her through that.
I mean, all of that type of high-level insight is just so darn valuable when you’re in a small group like that. It really feels comforting to know that there’s experts within the group that really are way ahead of you in certain aspects of the business. And then there’s also things that you’re way ahead of them so that you can help them again. And it’s that whole idea of reciprocity, of just really being able to give and get from that group and that experience. We’re so happy to have you there.
And thank you so much for helping us understand culturally competent leadership. What that really means for us? And please tell us how can others stay connected with you, Nic? People who are looking to join your team. People who are looking to hire you or one of your team members. Or people who are wanting to really get more Nic time through the podcast or through the YouTube channel. Tell us how can people stay connected to you?
[00:51:32] Nic Campbell: Yeah. First, thank you so much, Shelli, for having me on and for the really insightful conversation. I mean, just getting the opportunity to talk more about the way we work, and our work, and just how we’re trying to make sure that we’re showing up with a high level of cultural competence.
If folks would love to be in touch with us, we have a podcast. It’s called the Nonprofit Build Up. We talk about a lot of the topics that we talked about here, really focusing in on how do we build out the infrastructure for brave nonprofits and philanthropies? And questions that are coming up within the capacity building in the nonprofit sector. And we are hiring. And so, I invite you to visit our website, which is buildupadvisory.com. And once you go to buildupadvisory.com, you’ll see the opportunities there. I really encourage you to apply and reach out with any questions that you might have.
And similarly, for organizations, if you are a leader of a non-profit or a philanthropy, one, I want to make sure that you are leading a brave non-profit or philanthropy that’s really important to us, and that you are pushing that status quo and really trying to affect change, right? We’re seriously trying to interrupt cycles of inequity and injustice. And so, if that’s the case, please visit our website and reach out to us. You can shoot us an email as well, which is at hello@buildupadvisory.com. And I look forward to hearing from you.
[00:53:02] Shelli Warren: Well, we’re going to have all those links in the show notes. And thank you so much for coming and spending some and quality time with me here, Nic. And I will see you in our next call.
[00:53:11] Nic Campbell: Yes, of course. Thanks so much, Shelli.
[00:53:14] Shelli Warren: Thank you.
[OUTRO]
[00:53:14] Stef Wong: And that completes part two of this two-part series on defining culturally competent leadership with Nic Campbell.
As we wrap up, if you’re interested in partnering with a law firm that leverages a global network of experienced attorneys with decades of legal training and practical experience and focuses on social impact organizations to serve as an outsourced general counsel and thought partner, then schedule discovery call with the Campbell Law Firm today.
The Campbell Law Firm works with brave nonprofits, philanthropies, philanthropists, ultra-high-net-worth individuals and movements offering high-touch counsel to social impact entrepreneurs and organizations around the world. We would love to hear more about your brave mission to change the world.
[00:53:58] Nic Campbell: Thank you for listening to this episode of Nonprofit Build Up. To access the show notes, additional resources and information on how you can work with us, please visit our website at buildupadvisory.com. We invite you to listen again next week as we share another episode about scaling impact by building infrastructure and capacity in the nonprofit sector.
Keep building bravely.
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